Computer Sensor Timing the ECU

Sound weird   Lets make this so easy to learn the computer bike, we are going to chop till there is no tomorrow and a black box is not about to ruin the party.

So, if you would like to chop that computer type bike, keep the telemetry on, you can do all of it and have that bike run like stink if not on par with a carb bike.

You may or my not match the air speed of a carb to the electrical fire signal/to the injector fuel cut. But say for a, Street Chopper? I cannot tell you how loaded in emissions you want to be in the tuning factor.   That is WATT Eye said. YOu want that emissions on the bike!

I am about to type in the abstract so you can follow along. See, I have this theory and it is nothing new. In fact, it is as old as the OTTO-cycle itself.

So, what I am about to try here is to walk you through the factory service manual, (FSM). Wait! I do not mean page for page. I mean, you can open the book of any FSM is every computer bike and just have at your chopper or whatever like a carb bike is chop it down.

Now, there is old school here and we need that to learn how to step on that master link of a moderator we have here, but we just want to set our bike up about 40 years fast forward and that old wind bag of a point arc and jet clog of you monitor is you reading this on your monitor too.  

I am looking for a few new school'ears that want an ear full of what is the sensor and all that is EC U gonna get an OHM's Law full IT; if I have any THINK to do with my thread.

OK, this is very complex and so is the bike. So, to walk my theory and to discuss the black box, the spark box, the sensor telemetry, the terms I use, the atmosphere we live in and are you ready?

I am sitting on my bike. I have the key off, and the sensors are under pressure. These are the 1st INput Signals:

WATT are the pounds of pressure on the sensor? Now, to understand a little bit of what is going on as far as what I can recognize is that the fuel injection works in a sorta "closed loop" system, like if you say you want to cut a pie up in 3 or 4 pieces say... (save that for another post).

Say, we use the old basic 3 variables your sorta memorize for life till you die, or say the bike dies bye the side of the road and a computer bike is now a boat anchor with no spark. We have compression is obvious is the 2nd variable. So, we pop the gas cap and yep, we have gas and there are your 3 basic sit at the side of the road is which one did I lose? The carb was a cinch. The computer bike on the side of the road is same-same is the game.

Do you see how this is sorta basic is to find either fuel or spark and compression are in the absolutes? You cannot start a bike/car/plane without one of the 3V's. If we are in agreement, then what and how you read how the computer bike works, is you are going to be on the side of the road and only the compression is all you are able to work on.

Yes, you can hot rod the computer bike up to a point. It is all about timing the sensors and tuning. It is also about being a bike or a boat anchor if your 3 basic new type of fuel-spark-compressions are now compressed into a 4th variable you cannot mess with being a closed loop system.

Now, I am sort of a re-read my abstract kind of guy. I like to start at any random position as if I acted like an engine that stopped no matter where in the 4-strokes I will still wind up full circle as a complete cycle and did not miss a stroke speaking the abstract's moves.

I am on a continuing learning curve on the workings of the computer bike. There is a lot in the FSM that is not explained, but you sure better know how to read that manual. And especially the code page when a sensor is on the blink at a dash pod near you.

So, you need to bring confidence you can follow my tech. You need to stump me with questions that if I take the FSM of your bike and I do not care what you rude that ride is (old style me a carb and points) is you are now out of the loop.

When I say, 'loop,' WATT that means to me in the electrical part is a whole can of worms of what are the physical parts.

Say, you always wondered about this sensor, or that sensor and what it did. OK, ask. You will find that electronic or digital fuel injection are generically the same. Meaning, it was like a carb bike. So if it had a Mikuni or an Amal? Are they not  a generic carb bike? If you are in agreement with this statement then fuel injection is not that hard starting(pun).

If we can eliminate a few more agreements, might I ask a basic computer question of you?...

1. WOT (wide open throttle) is the pressure inside the cylinder, key off?
2. WATT (Ohm's Laws)is the air pressure on the sensors that have a wafer (like the top of a snare drum is bang that ear drum), Watt is the pressure on that wafer, no engine is running.
3. What is the air pressure on your body skin at this moment.

I use a lot of 3 kinds of variables is that if you think about it, you breathe in, you stop breathing, then you exhale. Are we in agreement that we can run in a pack of 3's to understand what is all about DFI? I believe we have ended here with a question and if you look again at the text, I covered way too much is spin your head is that is the basic point is to stir up some old style sawdust is gram ear school physicks I do not take lightly is to place salt in the wound.

If you would like to learn about all that is start my bike is a black box... It is all about you and your learning curve. I am pretty much on my way with the fundamentals is if you want to read that FSM better than the mechanic at the dealership is question him on DFI (digital fuel injection). Hunt for a good tech who knows how to read a factory service manual and trump every other theory and abstract you think you or he/she can come up with...

If you inquire about your computer bike and it's function, I have a thread open for just that. This is your forum. I am all business and 18 banned passwords from other websites prove that out. There are way too many closed minded think ears and with the tech I present is you can take it or leave it....

A chopper has attitude and dude, you do not build a chop without it. Ask the old farts like your closed minded mankind is you better believe it come carb or computer... YOu've been Sexxzee Pill, he's a dipship he's so....(wood someone ban him) Is I am a black-pill in a spark box no matter wear out I go.  

Chop my ad day tude is what is the pressure is you are now on the clock is your learning curve to chop the black box is let me at it.  

This is my abstract and it is going to be a little simple will now take some thinking if you ever want to mess with your bike and the fuel trim it takes to understand a little basics.

You need to ask yourself how a computer bike works by asking these questions so you can study the way the bike has to function in the absolute way an engine fires off is it needs: Fuel-Spark-Compression.

So we know we need these 3 variables to make any engine work or run, rather. We now have to understand what that engine wants on every stroke is why you can have the same voltage values for every stroke that makes the telemetry work in a computer bike.

I basically know how the digital fuel injection works (up to a point) as you need basic fundamentals to understand the complex way the bike uses the telemetry. Once you find out how simple the abstract terms I use, you are on your way to tuning the bike, (out of any shop manual and understand their letters and what the page says), at all the level stages of the low and high speed fuel settings. Like a carb, the fuel injector follows the same proportions to higher RPM's. Both act the same way. So, either think forward or backward to old carb and vacuum advance, you will never be lost in the book of abstract, which is how the FSM is written.

So, here is a bike out in the garage and we are looking at that key fob is a key in a fog of technology. I would like to ask the first question so it all works it wonder is I wonder if you know:
1.What is the air pressure on your skin?
2. What is the air pressure on the sensor when the key is turned off?
3. What is the air pressure when the key is turned on?
4. When the intake valve closes on the degree of that stroke, what is the air pressure inside the cylinder?
5. When you hear the rpm range values, what is the constant air pressure in that engine? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aOWuk5Q75w
6. Fuel and air are entering the engine. What is the final proportion of that air to fuel ratio?


If you can see/ear the engine is still running, (injectors not spraying as you watch), you see there is a 2-Stage > Fuel Cut Signal (FCS) being used.
7. What is the fuel to air ratio of the low cut signal, D-J(Digital-Jetronic). What is the air pressure to the upper fuel range, a-N(Alpha-Nu) to this computer engine video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFm0m6sbOi8&feature=related
8. If you saw me in your rear view mirror, how much breathing in and out are your pressures; I do not want to know. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFm0m6sbOi8&feature=related

Rather, when you are neither breathing or exhaling is what is the pressure in your lungs as I start to not let up on either a-N or D-J, is throttle up this thread is you think it is dead?

You do not answer is consider this thread dead, (engine). Sea Horse Power Cutting is see my fuel'did it make some horse is romp your ride, (your sad fill in the blank it is on). Sea that horse romp your ride? Did we not know your hide from a code page in the factory service manual is basic fundamentals is waiting to pass you up. I am at the pay window is pay me is passed you up, (you didn't know your fundi's).


 

If you want to be on the same page as me, then you need to choose 1 of 3 variables. I can lead you to water, but the rest is up to you. Don't have a clue whom to listen to? I know, I feel like I am in the same boat.
But float that theory as you go, you can only blow one thing is a constant. This is going to take me a while to walk my own theory out is to play it out as I go. So, bet that theory to the bank as it may, I can start any old way is how about we start with 3-ways that being a body breath.
I am going to act like a cylinder, a valve closing, and an exhaust opening. What I will not point out is the piston stroke, That will be your spark and imaginary moving piston and crank in your third dimension. So, imaging you are now about to take an inhale and become a negative pressure. You stop inhaling and you think what pressure you are now? You sparked a thought, threw some BTU in the cylinder chamber and all that technical; made power and all that is a piston on descend. It is coming back up around, so you exhale on that stroke.
Just so we have that first part of the page is to know about heat, pressure made and what amount made that combination to fire an engine off. We are speaking about, 14.7 PSI. See, when you read or discuss cylinder fill, you hear, "More Air."

A/Fratio becomes confusing to some, or say someone says there is less air because the piston is coming up and you lose a cylinder charge as the piston rises to push out the, "more" of what one thought went in.

So, in a way, you can look at that cylinder fill as 3 variables being, more air went in/less air went in/same air entered the cylinder at the close of the valve.

Ask yourself, did your lungs fill as the practical to the 14.7 PSI of nature and holding that bubble in a constant, was no more or no less).

To be on the same page as the factory shop manual, you need to think out 3 cylinder filling variables filling that chamber. When you breathed in on the intake stroke, then stopped breathing, did you suck in, 'more' or 'less' air?

You now need to choose one of the 3 practical's that make sense but only one theory pans out in the absolute and you as a mod modifier with your bike's performance, you need to think about a jet in a carb and how it remains one size jet. If you think about it, the jet does not add more or less per bore hole or you would have to replace the jet hole to add more or less fuel is the practical about walking the, More/or/Less theory to cylinder filling.

So, you could say, did the jet add more fuel because the air going in was more? Or, when the fuel is being sucked out of the jet hole, was there 'less' fuel as if someone change the jet size mid suck?

If say, I am in the hot desert air, did I suck in more or less air? If said, I am now in a thick wet fog, is that more fuel as if we again change a jet mid way before the valve closes, or did we close on the constant 14.7 PSI closing being no more jet or air sizes is the constant to the theory is the constant 14.7 PSI no matter how you say how the valve closes.

You want to keep quantifying the 3 More/Same/Less variables to cylinder filling and you want to nail that one variable down so you can build the foundations to reading the factory shop manual, (FSM).

There may not be many words to help sort out reading the technical end of the practical application to the book. You need to sorta know that going in. These are some of the basic foundations you play with in your troubleshooting skills to transgress from one fuel meter to the other. One runs in a physical suck through vacuum was the jet/carb era.
Today, the era is FI (fuel injection). The same fuel that was once a vacuum assist is now an electrical assist fuel meter. Both follow the same practical move of nature being a constant.

What remains constant is, dare I say it? OK, say the same proportions play out the math? If you burn a pound of fuel, it has a "SET" BTU Rate of heat. No more or no less of... Dare I say it's other buddy, (air)? Air Fuel Ratio?

You could say, 42.4 BTU's = 1 HP. Therefore, if you change the jet for tuning, or move more BTU (into the chamber = Time to pressure up the constant = Someone is leaving is in equal proportions and heat you win, too rich you cool the heat you lose).

Got that theory going in the FSM? There is only so much electrics you throw at the BTU to AIRatio. When jetting an injector (time open = determines rich or lean), is to make the proportions happen as per (same) cylinder fill (each and every time is it constant).

You can set the HP rate is the math times the BTU. You changed nothing but a fuel to air proportion to make more HP with fuel alone.
Every engine off the assembly line is like a snowflake. It will make more or less HP between each other is like a tiny fog and desert air is that slight HP difference in small increments.
You did not create vacuum and you live in that vacuum sorta the physics are a constant is follow the law (of foundations): Then exploit it!

Say for example; you slow the crankshaft for every degree you will see the constant 14.7 filler is the same. But you (changing jets sizes) or nature (air) adjusting that bubble is the dare I say; is it not the same bubble if we stopped the crank degree at BTC (bottom of the crank throw is all she wrote). So then, what is the atmospheric pressure in that chamber at this point? Remember, the cylinder stopped but you have to visualize it, or your theory for the other 2 variables is you get sucked in yourself juggling all three.

If it takes air to make the speed of the lighting bolt to slam to ground, did it take that traveled road (the air)? Do you think the air could match the speed of electricity? Dare I say, "WOT" (wide open throttle) is the PSI when the intake valve closes on that crank degree is (remember to stop that on the degree is slow the crank dead at each degree is what is the..........?Dare "PEA YES EYE" Said it!

WATT say BT U?  (Fundi Foundations Fact or Fiction)  

wow- trippy action there partner. let me have a few barley pops and reread it all. maybe some psillies would really help me out.

where did i put those points again???

toph  

How about we play with some info you can use. You have to understand even more than that just to understand what they are describing in the factory shop manual.

Here are some things you could literally die with is your own name sake, is say we have 3 absolutes we can die with is that they walk the steps as plain as day. They are, spark-fuel-compression. If we do not have those 3 in place, our engine is not going to run no matter what other theory you come up with, the 3 have no other variables but these 3.

So now that the computer stole our spark and fuel, we are stuck with the only one variable to the computer bike. This is compression. And with compression are all the, 'behind-the-seen-variables' you have to diagnose to figure out who lost compression and where?

With our 3V's in place as remember, who put us on the side of the road; is it an empty gas tank and all that figuring out? We are somewhat in a 4th variable being we lost spark advance and fuel metering to the ECU.

Now we have switched from fuel spark compression to sensor, ECU and one last try. OK, here is where you need a few barley brews to swallow this next list of variables...

We have sensors all over our engine. We have most of these sensors tied-in with other sensors that for example: Use the crank and spark sensors as, Rev-Limiters" so as not to float the valves past their peak crank speed.
Another point about sensors is that the ones you need to know are the 3 and 2 wire sensors. You see, if you lose a sensor that has 3 wires, they have their own backup code and will run without the sensor in play. You are safe to ride it because it follows the same fuel maps being they run in a digital signal, rather than the sensor signals.

Now, the key to the computer 3v's is you have the ECU, the crank, and cam being; your 3V's are about to park your bike to the side of the road. You need to remember the same basic 3Variables that will stop the bike cold, as if these old 3 are not present in the computer bike world, but are the obvious to look for is now look in the 4th variable, say.
The crank knows what degree position it is in. This is to sent the spark, for one. The cam sensor knows what cylinder needs the next spark and the ECU runs the whole show once it receives these two of many (sensor) inputs.

OK, on the side of the road we go, being we have the crank as a 2wire sensor; has no backup code to continue running; and it will be a dead input if the ohm resistance world; reading it is not specifically within that resistance window it needs to say within. The crank sensor is the first to be read for diagnostics; if the bike does not start. This is like basic chase (your old) 3V's (are your new 3V's = 6 of them for old bike/new bike)that we must use and might as well die with those variables, cause they can get you home.
So, bottom line... If the crank is not within book spec of said ohms value, presume this is one variable you die with checking out the crank sensor is one basic remember me of three.

The cam sensor is going to be a good stump your diagnosis is that the ECU and the cam sensor have to recognize who is next to fire once you turn the key off. When the key is back on, The ECU kept the, "last good signal" in memory. Now it knows who to fire off next. So, you are one key-cycle away from knowing if your cam sensor is still good or you are once again, sitting on the side of the road with the crank sensor. Remember, the second variable being the cam sensor can. And if the cam cannot leave the ideal resistance in memory for the ECU, then therefore this could be your 2nd dead sensor come the second key-cycle is one expired variable #2.

Last of the 3V's to a computer bike is the ECU. She has all that stored as to set the choke in the morning. Remember it has a good known cam signal saved or she will not fire off is call the ECU being the third variable as well as the cam and crank is full circle, (as battery having it's full voltage to make all work).

This is basically what the FSM is describing in the pages of the manual. It all says it in the book. The thing is, it does not tell you word for word as I have about the difference between a 2 or 3 wire sensor. Nor does it come out and say the ECU, cam and crank sensors are the 3V's to the computer bike.

Where do you think I found how the bike functions as I have described? These answers and more can be found in the factory shop manuals of your generic computer bike be it Japanese, British, USA, Italian breed is they all bleed the and follow the same electrical computer type failures.  

If you follow the text, you should be seeing a pattern of 3 variables more or less. REMEMBER: You die next to the side of the road, you think, "Did I lose, 'Fuel'-'Spark', or 'Compression'?"

We are discussing, simple term fundamentals. We need to walk every step out to quantify our 3 variables. When we degree-in a cam, we play with that piston time and the time it hangs at TDC compression stroke.

Place the piston at TDC in your head. Where is the con rod? Is it to one side still moving up, or is it on the other side, ready to move down? Did you vision the rod on each side of direct vertical? Notice all that degree time at the bottom, but the piston hung there still at TDC?

We are going to try to dispel the notion that ignition timing plays a part in the fuel delivery of say, a modern fuel injected throttle body. When stock cars of old were racing, the hot thinkers were already aware of the math it took and the time it took for a set amount of fuel to burn out at so many milli/nanoseconds.

What the black box does is make sure the ignition fires off at a certain degree, and ideal is to have all the fuel spent = 10° ATDC compression stroke. Because the next stroke is the power stroke. So, no matter the ignition, she is going to be spent right around that degree. You can only have so much pressure and working the cams mean if you chase exhaust openings sooner, you loose pressure. Keep it closed, you expel all that is power-stroke-pressure to it's diminishing returns.

Now that we have established the, 10°Rule call it, we are looking to see how the practical steps are said/stated/described in say an article you are reading. Are they describing how ignition would retard to slow your bike down, or would it be an air dam like a restrictor plate, but made electronically to retard= AIR, rather than ignition.

Find March 2009 articles in Cycle World or Road Racing World of the new Yamaha R1 'crossplane' crankshaft, and the comparison is about ignition retard and the mode switch that sets the secondary throttle plates to slow down/opens sooner by selecting which mode of air speed you want.

Once again, find your 3 variables that expose themselves to you. For the mode switching, we can say the one air gate is moving at Standard street setting. Next would be a performance setting. Last would be a race setting. Some kind of scenario explained like so would show a retard in air to slow the speed of the event.

Imagine if we were traveling 120mph and we had the ignition retard? Why? You would not move a locked fuel to time burn away from base line 10° ATDC would you? Of course not. It would damage and heat the engine so quick at 120mph, within literally seconds; it would score the piston skirt; weld it to the cylinder wall; the rod keeps moving, breaks at the weakest point of that [liquorish taffy] connecting rod it now set the bike to,'ignition retard" and I'll eat my shorts [or her'z].

As far back as 1999 [is my example], the air restrictor plate has been used as any type of retarding the bike or engine performance, not ignition retard. Be careful what you read. I tried to warn a few editors about that little historical event; where it is technically not what they are writing about is read above editions to follow this this post. You cannot say I did not warn you, gentlemen.

For historical purposes, and for future air retarding [not ignition retarding] as to how fast you can rev the OTTO-engine; is a continual search for a faster event in the cycle to happen and it is that simple to comprehend.

There are two [air restricting] designs that are used on the modern OTTO-cycle today. One way to close the air speed, is Suzuki came out with a very fast bike in 1999. They restricted the bike so the air would close down at the intake track. Thus, Suzuki has kept that design since 1999, uses the mode switch to close/open air to the air cleaner cage on their 1000cc model.

The next air dam design came from the throttle body, where Yamaha/others buy from Mikuni or say the other fuel type sellers/jobbers. They work with the bike engineers like Delphi that design things to restrict the air flow. Thru the sub-system or called subthrottles/secondary throttle plates, that are controlled by an actuator/stepper motor both mean the same as that subthrottles where the secondaries are slowed as per rpm. It does not matter what gear. You just have to move the rpm and the secondary/subthrottles electronically move with rpm as you change gear ratio which moved the rpm up or down: Secondary speed divided by rpm speed = Flow rate the Slow rate in.

I have presented 10 years of design that has never touched the ignition being these are events within themselves. They just ping each other in the black box. On says that it rose in rpm. The other tells it to rise in unison with the RPM. No ignition went to retard as you step down in gear and the rpm raises higher.

Think about it. I went from full retard to start my Panhead, and it ran or tired to run until I physically pulled it to full advance. I never touched it again until I turned it off. Do you see how in the computer, there are events taking place but they are matching old ignitions like as old as the, PAiNhead bang on that for awhile is ponder. This is theory in the most basic, fundamental, practical way the OTTO-Fires.

Restrictor means: It runs out of air as if your stock vehicle falls on it's face it has the gas, not the air flow. Remove the air cleaner and there you go. Same happens to the race engine when they use a restrictor plate. Do not think lean if your own bike out of the crate is slow with all that muffler and air cleaner restricting flow. It is, was, will always be air restricting the OTTO-cycle. That puppy hauls RPM in an instant, it needs a leach.